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Equine Entrepreneurs: Nick Bourdon & building a technology company in the equestrian industry.

Updated: Sep 29, 2021

Nick Bourdon from Artemis describes the journey of a technology entrepreneur in the equestrian industry. Artemis Horse Match is a Florida based technology company that helps horse buyers and sellers find each other easier. Simply create an account, define the sort of horse you are looking to buy, and then sit back and Artemis will email you horses that match your description daily. Specifically, in the podcast you will learn:

  • Nicks entrepreneurial journey.

  • Why the equestrian industry is so far behind when it comes to technology.

  • Some of the common technology problems the equestrian industry faces and why they persist.

  • The trials and tribulations of being a technology entrepreneur in an industry that is inherently trying to get away from technology and spend more time outside with the horses they love.

If you want to contact Nick click here.

[Audio was transcribed by 3rd party - please notify us if a correction is needed]

Sam Banes - Pegasus Podcast 0:45

Hey everyone and welcome back to another episode of Pegasus equine entrepreneurs. Today we are chatting with Nick Bourdon, CEO and founder of Artemis Horse Match a technology company in the equestrian industry that you can find at Artemis is spelled AR t m i s horse Now, Artemis is a simple but pure technology platform. Essentially you create an account, list out the preferences for what sort of horses you were looking to buy. And then sit back and wait while Artemis will send you emails about the horses that match your description daily. The emphasis here being on email, no more scrolling through websites, Facebook groups, Tinder for horses, apps, etc. Instead, just tell Artemis what you want once and sit back and wait for the horse matches to be sent straight to the mail application on your phone. It's that simple. Right? So now that we have that context, What is today's pod really about? Today's pod is mostly about how technology entrepreneurs in the equestrian space are thinking about the future of the industry, and what they're doing now to prepare the industry for said future. In no specific order. The topics we will go through in this podcast today include one Nick's entrepreneurial journey to why the equestrian industry is so far behind when it comes to technology. As we all know it is three some of the common technology problems the equation industry faces currently and why those problems are persisting, and for the trials and tribulations of being a technology entrepreneur in an industry that inherently is trying to get away from technology, and instead spend more time outside with the force that they love. So if those sounds like questions you've asked yourself before, or experiences you personally had of business problems you've tried to overcome, then this will be the perfect podcast for you. If you want to reach out to Nick to learn more about his services anonymous horse match, you can reach out to him at his Pegasus page that will be linked to in the show notes. One quick bit of admin before we get started, if you are listening to this and you are an econ entrepreneur and you want to share your story with our audience, then please do reach out to us and join us on this podcast. To do so head over to www dot the Pegasus dot app slash podcast to register. And if you're going to be in Kentucky started October for Equitana. Please come and find us and say hello as we would love to meet you all and hear your feedback on both the podcast and the platform. And we will be handing out free fudge. So if you don't want to talk to us, you don't think we're special and you have no feedback. At least come over and just get yourself some free badge. Alright, with all that said, let's jump into today's equine entrepreneurs podcast with Nick Borden from Artemis horse match.

Sam Banes - Pegasus Podcast 4:26

Well, thank you very much for joining us this morning. For the listeners that don't know Do you want to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about who you are and what your company does?

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 4:35

Sure. So thanks for having me on the podcast, Sam & Jen, really excited. My name is Nicholas Borden. I'm the founder of Artemis horse match. It is the first proactive email matchmaking service for riders. Buyers could go in at a request and saying that I would like to find a horse to purchase then Artemis sends you private discreet emails right to your inbox of horses that match no more looking on Facebook. You don't have to spend a Eight hours a day on it. That's what I do.

Sam Banes - Pegasus Podcast 5:03

Right? And had had and how did this come about? Like, how did you? How did this come about in terms of where you decided to go down this path of doing the email and doing a private? And what was the conversations you had that led you to pursuing this course of action?

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 5:20

Great question. Okay, so I'm going to decouple that into two points. So initially, the idea came about about a year and a half ago, when several of my equestrian friends stated that the purchase process for horses online is terrible, it's cumbersome, and there's little to no customer service, let alone quality check. They're all these fragmented silos. So within that, I was, I was asked to build a solution for them. And in that, it came to the point of saying this could be more of a business, this process is a lot easier. Now, going back to how to distill down to the email portion Artemis at the time, built to become more of a more of a robust platform. But after talking to investors with any idea, I just spoke to 100 different customers and tried to distill the problem into certain pain points. And then at the end of talking to 100 or so potential customers, the new solution that came about was, you know, whether it be another app or another solution that I build towards that you build towards the data. And after refining that process, about three to four times it's come down into email. And exclusively, the reason I found is in my case, it was more for you build towards customer behavior, not necessarily building towards the problem. Still, that's why Artemis Match found that having horses sent to your email is much easier for the customer to go in and say I would like to have that in my inbox. I'll review it after a training session. Once I've dealt with a client, I'll have that in my back pocket, and I get for that over to a vet. So that that's how it came about in a nutshell.

Jen Tankel - Pegasus Podcast 6:59

Yeah, so So did people sign up? So you had friends that came to you, and they were equestrians? I'm assuming so they were going through the horse purchasing process? And they're like, Nick, this is terrible fixing something ever make me something that fixes this problem? Why do they go to you specifically, are you a software engineer by trade?

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 7:17

So I'm very familiar with creating software. At the time in college, I was consulting with several businesses, when they were wanting to make their own software products, whether it be graduate students along or with this, as well as at Babson College. So they are already well aware. And I've already been teaching students, I do enjoy teaching people how to solve the problem and build towards the customer, not necessarily towards what they think the customer wants to radically different things. So when I was I was working on a previous startup at the time. And so that's why they reached out to me and he said, You're much better with tech, could you create us a solution? And I'm always up for a puzzle. So I said, Sure, why not? They came up to me and they're like, did you fix it? I'm like, it took me a week. But yes, what do you think? And it just kind of rolled down from there.

Jen Tankel - Pegasus Podcast 8:01

So yeah, so So is it. So is a website and or an app.

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 8:08

So Artemis Match today is a website where you could go in, you could submit through our forms the horse you're interested in purchasing. And as well as listing your horse for free on the platform, and that it resides, the value add in the service resides in the inbox. So a user will submit their search request looking for, you know, a 16 hand Oldenburg mare, and they will be emails received, they'll say, here's the match, here's the sellers information, you could contact them directly. There's no middleman approaches just saying here's a service, you can save time. And this isn't a you know, a scam listing from Bangladesh or whatever. I'm sure you find it. And so it makes the process a lot easier. And it just adds to their due diligence process. It doesn't replace it not yet.

Jen Tankel - Pegasus Podcast 8:55

Right. Right. And how soon after when they've submitted that information, that criteria on Artemis, do they receive that email?

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 9:03

Yeah, so I've had it actually, about two days ago, somebody sent a match request, and they said, Hey, I just submitted, let me know in about five hours later, I gave them two matches to them. I said, here it is, what do you like? And they were they're pretty content with the how quick the responses and like, Wow, you've found me a horse that literally match my four main criteria? Oh, because it depends, right? Sometimes you could add in as many as I mean, right now, it's 10 different criteria, but it's expanding daily. And so their criteria was more broad. So that was a lot easier to give them some options. So it could go pretty quickly. And then when it comes to having horses added to the platform, that's great, because they add it for free. So they get to pay for performance and for results as opposed to front loading and a promise. So it's just different approaches. And I found that for me, it was better to do it that way. So it could be very quick. Yeah,

Jen Tankel - Pegasus Podcast 9:59

it sounds like It's a curated horse matching. Like I thought I'd first heard that horse match. I almost thought Tinder for horses are like you're swiping. But this is like they want this very specific kind of horse. And it sounds like you can go and really curate and find source those horses then provide a report directly to them. Which

Sam Banes - Pegasus Podcast 10:19

Yeah, I can see. It's more eHarmony than Tinder. Yeah.

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 10:23

Yeah, that's, that's, that's a great comparison. Sam. Yeah. And it's when the idea was coming about and having a distilled from the customers, they said, I would like to more of a focus on the Salesforce process. So okay, within my customer said, that's what they suggested. And I was looking at the Tinder approach, I found that if, as an entrepreneur, if I were to make a Tinder like approach, the supposition is that a user on Tinder has one type, or they have generally what they're looking for, doesn't really change. Whereas, you know, horse buyers and sellers have several types of horses are looking forward. So it would be hard to make sure that they're getting a curated response. And once you swipe left, you really don't get that match, that that won't come up again. So that was part of the reason when, when we are creating the email matchmaking service, as a person can add as many horse requests as they like, and they will get matches specific to that request, depending if they're looking for an investment horse a hard course or what have you. Right, yeah, right.

Sam Banes - Pegasus Podcast 11:24

And so the the friends that originally approached you about this, and you consulted with as you figured out how to solve the problem. They all like with a friends from university, like, how did you come in contact with them?

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 11:38

Yeah, so it's other friends from back home here in Florida or at university. Others have been in the, you know, their disciplines for more English and several and Polo. So it was good to see from a cross discipline, perspective, what are the common issues that reside in the purchasing process of courses, and more so the qualification, so they wanted to have an easier way to spend more time on their horse and less time online. To have these other matches, I could look at this, I could send it to a vet, to you know, examine the video or send it to a trainer. And it was good to see that cross disciplinary application, because that's a roadmap for Artemis to say, if today is English, then I suppose tomorrow will be Western and Polo. And so we're excited to continue that. And right now we've had horse is out in a variety of disciplines focused on English and will expand to a cluster. So yeah,

Jen Tankel - Pegasus Podcast 12:31

so that that's an interesting topic, too. So what what were some of those similar issues across disciplines? Because that's someone that's one of the things that we've been fascinated with at Pegasus is, the more we talk to different disciplines, the more we find out like, wow, you all have similar challenges. Maybe we should talk to each other about it. And so I'm curious what your what your experience was when you were talking to the different disciplines like what was that underlying theme of Nick, we really need this to be solved in Artemis.

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 13:02

Yes, so yeah, that's a that's a great question. So when I was talking to several disciplines, it's, you have to what I found I had to separate between what is a cultural question, or what is a behavior based on culture in that discipline, or what is a true operation constraint. So for example, when I was talking to some polo players they're talking about, it is difficult to find Polo ponies that are vetted. But granted, they're purchasing and they have, you know, flights full of these ponies, you know, just for one team. So they have a different buying approach. But I found that when talking with them, and others, the same issue occurs where it's time, they don't have a lot of time. And they would like to have quality package for them nicely, and have that customer service to take care of them and walk them through finding the horses that match the description. So it was a time constraint, it was a quality demand. And it was also ease of use. So having an email and something comfortable that they don't really have to unveil their phone number or their email was something nice and the discretion is actually was a huge pain point between the disciplines. Oddly enough, if you were to be a, you know, very excited horse buyer, or you just bought a Grand Prix horse and said, Oh, I'm so excited, I think you ride the horse, and it's just, it's just not a good match. So now you're kind of like in an odd position where we found that some people are like, Oh, I kind of need to sell that. Now, I just posted on Facebook that I was so excited, but I can't write it well, or vice versa the horse like the horses and like the the rider so having this free pocket listings was another value add for our, you know, between disciplines to say, we can make sure that that horse is sold privately and making sure that you're getting matched to customers who are interested in that. So nobody wastes time. So

Jen Tankel - Pegasus Podcast 14:52

that's very interesting. And I've actually seen I hadn't really thought about it until you just brought this up on the just being discreet, but I've also Notice on Facebook, everything's public. And of course, as you've seen, I'm sure there are 1000s of different Facebook groups with horses for sale. And I've actually seen people who I know are historically really good at sourcing horses, buying them and then turning them for a profit. Because they are the I mean, they're just they're so good at their job. And they know they're looking for much more so say than I would, but I will see them comment on a horse ad and say, and have an interest in that horse. And so I'm not interested in buying a horse right now. But if I was, I would try to get that horse to because I see that they see something. So it's almost like, like Bob Baffert, you know, he's not the guy in the knot, Bob, any, any, any prominent racehorse owner in a in an auction, they're not the ones who are actively, you know, buying and buying horses, where everyone else can see they want it to be very discreet, they don't want, they don't want other people to see what they see. So that they can get the horse and then turn a profit, etc. But I can see the whole component of being discreet being a very sought after feature of Artemis.

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 16:10

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And especially looking on the Facebook pages. I mean, you could just run through the comments, and you'll see the same questions. Price. Video. Price, please. pm video. Can you send this over to me? Is it still available? It's the same question. Although the horses are public, the prices are not and you still have to invest time and I'm sure you know, the industry has been doing, you know, fairly well on Facebook. But you're seeing Facebook censor the equine industry, across the board. Yeah, even even with photographers I work with they're saying no, Nick, I'm posting my services, my pictures online saying hey, I took this picture for portraiture, and Facebook censors it. And it is a huge problem for small business owners when they're trying to market to the equine industry. The only workaround I have found you can even see in the Facebook pages where they're making their own lingo, right, where they're saying use these emojis or use, you know, don't this prize, this list, you know, five figures, six figures. But when it comes to images on Facebook, it's it's quite difficult to accurately market without having a sensor and then appeal it, you don't even have time, it's, it just seems odd to me that the biggest communication center that that we all have access to is censoring, specifically our industry. Really,

Jen Tankel - Pegasus Podcast 17:30

it's wild and I would imagine for the buyer to to have to continuously reply with all with the same information for every single inbound because they can't just post it on a post because it'll get taken down and or they'll be blocked on Facebook. So from the buyers perspective, too, I can see that being just an exhausting process.

Sam Banes - Pegasus Podcast 17:51

and on that note, like, it's, it's not like it is a problem of like, you might be a single individual selling a horse. And, you know, and having Facebook censor your post, you know, is an inconvenience. But we have, we have users on Pegasus who have come and built out their business profile and their, their personal profile on Pegasus away from Facebook, simply because like, when they had one of their posts, taken down, they also had their account blocked. Because like it was like, like, as in your, your account has been taken down because you have consistently post breached our policies and posted horses for sale, etc. And for a lot of these people, when that happens, like and this is the feedback we're getting from our users is that, like, that's their livelihood. like they've spent years building up their Facebook business page, and they have spent years filling up building up their, like their followers, etc. And the moment that that happens to them, they're like, shit, like, I don't know how to get my horses out there for sale anymore. It's I guess, that my entire Lifeline is just gone. Because I've invested in an infrastructure that has the power of God over them and can basically turn their business off overnight, which for a lot of people like, like, they don't even have any redundancy in that if you don't have a secondary way of doing it even build a secondary audience somewhere else like on Instagram, etc. Or, you know, on Pegasus, then like you might not be able to pay the bills next month.

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 19:24

And and that's where I see you know, Pegasus playing a big value add by having that, that place to go to and say there's no world where the content for questions will be censored, because Facebook inherently is ignoring the context for what your questions are posting content. And like you said, it's literally it's not a matter of if it's a when that the airline industry will get crippled on Facebook and they're going to have to find a place but it's advantageous for both of our businesses, to have a safety net for our customers and say you could go on here and the business will come Continue, you know, it's a mass exodus out of Facebook. So, but I agree it is it is terrifying to go online and say my main funnel has vanished. Yeah. Very scary thought that people don't want to think about. But it's

Sam Banes - Pegasus Podcast 20:18

as, as I'm sure you've experienced, like with building your company and building, you know, branding and a follower base either on your Facebook page or on your Instagram account, like it takes a lot of time and a lot of hard work to build that following back up. So even if like your account gets banned, and then you just create a new page, you can't just it's not as it's not like a mobile phone. When you change phones and you transfer your contacts from one phone to the other. To get back that following base would take years. And therefore any of any of you and if you know most people who sell horses operate off the function are well I'm gonna have one horse and if I have 10,000 followers and I posted then I'm guaranteed I'm going to get at least 10 buyers interested buyers, those 10 interested buyers Give me the ability to negotiate the price and upsell it so I can get a bigger profit. So if that just disappears and you don't have those numbers to make those economics work, then you're absolutely screwed.

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 21:18

Exactly. I mean, it's just people are handing over the reins to somebody else. And it's just it's a mindless bot on Facebook that's censoring it. You can't really negotiate with a VA Oh yeah, go please though, but exactly.

Sam Banes - Pegasus Podcast 21:32

The other thing too like Facebook is famously like has no customer service. Like I remember I remember a few years back my my sister's Facebook account got hacked by ISIS I don't know if you remember like two three years ago ISIS was like hacking a lot of Facebook accounts and posting like really pro ISIS propaganda. And my sister who works at Google like so she's not exactly a complete troglodyte. She tried to contact Facebook and she's like there's there's no cause of action there's no i didn't see do glitter account that was it she's like that's it blew my account. I never went back on Facebook again. But like there's no customer service path. So if they shut down your Facebook page and you use your Facebook page as your business line, and they shut you down unfairly like there's no cause of action you just you just have to accept that's your new reality

Jen Tankel - Pegasus Podcast 22:23

you just have to create a new profile Yeah,

Sam Banes - Pegasus Podcast 22:25

build it up again.

Jen Tankel - Pegasus Podcast 22:27

So your sister then so she she gets hacked by ISIS shuts it down and then all of her friends and family are just that's all they see is her as an ISIS supporter and then she's gone


Sam Banes - Pegasus Podcast 22:39

yeah, so she just like Yeah, yeah, deleted the account never came back never came back.

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 22:44

Well I mean, with the troubles of Facebook and censorship, it does help our market at the end of the day to provide that value to to our customers, whether it's posting on Pegasus, all you know, all the businesses and listings provided or Artemis Match for for the sales, it gives people a transition to make our businesses the primary and focused onto the solely the equestrian space. So that's, that's more of, you know, a good reason to have people transition to say, if anything goes wrong, what do you do nine times out of 10 they don't have an answer. And then there you go, you can say here's why these two businesses are being the next you know, big trend in coin space.

Jen Tankel - Pegasus Podcast 23:35

Absolutely. It's almost like a you know, we this is our first like, conversation really going deep into each other's businesses and stuff, but it's almost like Pegasus is the home for the profiles, the horses, all that information. And then that content curated for whatever you're looking for, from a buyer's perspective through Artemis get sent to the to the buyer, because they're looking at a horse. They want to be matched with the right horse, but I just I can see our companies integrating really well together based on what they're looking for at that time. Yeah, Jordan.

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 24:09

Artemis is air traffic control. It just goes through and it says, alright, there's horse listings. someone puts in a request and they say Artemis go forth and find it. And my software does the work and it says okay, here it is listed on Pegasus, click here.

Jen Tankel - Pegasus Podcast 24:23

How did you come up with a name Artemis? Where's that from? All that?

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 24:27

Thank you, I put so much thought behind the name. So, so it went on to two different avenues. One domain name, which, which was a big thing and I said, Okay, I need a solid domain name. And also it was available for trademarking and it just came in actually last month, I was super excited. So trademarking and domain name are the two biggest ones. And the reason why I picked Artemis is because when I was picking the industry, I was looking at the customer demographic and I said okay, who is the main group of people in this space, and it's all women for the English discipline. When I was making this, I'm like, Alright, it's all women. And these women are strong, independent women looking to soar to the next jump, and increase the bar, as, you know, story through this to this industry. And I thought, okay, Artemis, she's the, you know, in Greek mythology. She's the very powerful Hunter, very powerful hunters and a great representation for women all around. And I thought, This is great. This is elegance. This is strength, it's class. And that's why I lean more towards that name, because that's the connotation and the brand that Artemis is built around to have quality service strength. And of course, you know, hopefully legendary status, so we're working. Like, once you

Jen Tankel - Pegasus Podcast 25:49

actually got to that point, too. I was I always I've been asking that. But are there other questions, too, that, that you get, like, thank you. I mean, is there is there something else, you can just go ahead and do our job right now? Like, for example, I'd say a question that we get put into context is like, like, Why? Why is the equestrian world so antiquated? And it's like, and you go into, you know, like the websites and like, you know, the the silos, and there's so many things that we can go down the rabbit hole, but it's just like that question that we'll get it like, why is it like this? And then we can just talk for hours? So are there questions? Or do you get that kind of question, too, is like, why historically has the horse world been so antiquated. Why'd Why are people still on Facebook? Why aren't people talking together? Why isn't this existed before? Like, are there any questions like that they like, good. This is why arguments exist. We're trying to help it.

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 26:48

Yeah, I mean, why the horse industry is antiquated? That's a great question. Because there's no lack of smart people in the space. I mean, everybody is extremely talented, and has the capacity to provide these solutions. But the question more so is, you know, do you have the time to do it, this is more of a hobby, and I know, it's a passion for a lot of these writers, and, and a lot of them is their livelihood. So it's, some people don't have the time to do it to find this extra space. Additionally, I would imagine that if you were to build a software solution, you know, even 10 years ago, it's radically different in terms of your capital structure to invest in build a solution, and to see that actually working. So I think from a Why is it antiquated? I think it's more so why are you seeing a wave of technical equity businesses come out or tech one start emerging? And I think it's because technology becoming democratized information is becoming more available for free on YouTube. So you're having people to pose that question to themselves and say, gosh, you know, I wonder if this pain could end your life, perhaps. And just, I think that's one of the reasons that's occurring. And since everyone could communicate on Facebook, they could share those, you know, they could localize those pain points, and, you know, buy businesses or building themselves. So that's, that's the really exciting part. With its own. Yeah, right.

Sam Banes - Pegasus Podcast 28:11

Um, so for you, in terms of, in terms of Artemis, and to try and draw out some of the business lessons here, just want to take us through how you actually how you've actually like, because most people think of like, for most people, you're talking about democratizing technology. For most people, the idea of starting a technology company is so abstract, especially in the equine space, and it seems very, very difficult and hard. So what has been your journey of how like you started Artemis , like the first week, the first month, the first six months per year, etc?

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 28:44

Got it. Okay. Yeah, that's, that's a fun question. So starting, right, my backgrounds more of entrepreneurship. And looking at this addressing a problem. Entrepreneurship is basically you could distill it down to unorthodox business, an orthodox business approach would say, here's a tech company, or tech idea, hire development firm continue. That's fine. totally reasonable. But when starting Artemis I'm not in a question, which is, you would think, from an entrepreneurial standpoint, that that would be a disadvantage. And for the, you know, for the listeners, if, if anyone comes up with an idea, and they're like, Oh, you know, gosh, I just don't have experience in this. That's a disadvantage. No, that does not seem to be the case at all, especially in niche markets, like the UK coin space, where not knowing actually gives you a great lens, more of a beginner's mind type lens. So you start to question more. And when scaling Artemis and talking to clients, the first question they ask, they said, Great, love it. Who do you know, the question that they're posing is not who you know, the question is, are you a threat? Are you are you a competitor, that's what they're really asking and to say, as an entrepreneur. But yeah, Artemis is a neutral third party. We're not affiliated, we're not partial. So consider us like Switzerland or air traffic control, we merely want to make sure you have good service. We're friends with nobody. And ironically enough, that makes you friends with everybody. This is really counterintuitive. So when when scaling Artemis , in the beginning, it was listening to first the photographers and talking to sale owners sale barn owners and understanding their pain points, then to say what is the behavior that they are currently doing so that way they will adopt it. And it took so much it took so much time when building the initial platform. And just I think I've done this already three different times where I made one platform and Artemis was tracking the analytics and we said, make it better. We're looking to turn it into an application, then turn it into now just horses and never find it down into into what it is now is a proactive email service. So in that process, it was definitely like your true entrepreneurial journey to say what is the data that suggests to move forward? What is the data to suggest to pivot? Anything else beyond that is a guess. I mean, a forecast is a glorified guessing you're just trying to reduce it with as much data as you can. But it is much easier for you know, when Artemis asks 100 people, what do they think? Write it down? Then at the end of the 100 people as 101 and say this is the new solution? Do you like it? Would you pay for it? And when you get a yes and say everything is answered, I'm curious, I will sign up then you have your initial 100 people that you asked as your customer base, then you go on what's that site a vocal video and then you got your video testimonials already recorded, I just thought the other day I was super excited. So you can get these these video testimonials. And then now you can have that as your market much better that I found to do it this way to to build towards the customer, rather than hiring a development firm to do the bulk of the work. And that's where, like consulting with the other companies was that was the initial approach. But I feel that entrepreneurs and I've seen it or entrepreneurs are run into the their budget constraints. Like mentioned before, where it's, they have a new idea, like oh, here's my tech solution, they build it Okay, then they go to the customer and the customer says I want this new feature or there is a bug and if this had this thing I'll pay for it. So then the entrepreneur is compelled to go in they schedule a meeting with the developer they sit down they look at the UI design they implement a couple of weeks go by and the same thing happens and then you sign the bill at the end right so like that so then you sign it and it continues so but as a software company you inherently want to make sure that there's no stumbling blocks and that you maximize the speed in which you can implement change. So I would say those are learning these skills and obviously every day is a new every day is a bug turns into a feature as

Jen Tankel - Pegasus Podcast 33:13

it was it was a caterpillar now it's a butterfly.

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 33:16

Like it's so funny when you when you're writing or you don't have to be that technical with some items but when you're writing code you look at it and you're like wow it works I don't know why and then you have to Yeah, so but um that would say for entrepreneurs who aren't technical that is okay customers don't really care I found in a hurts Mike It breaks my heart because I put in you know we all put an hours into building our tech platform but at the end of the day they don't know right and then that's that's okay their prerogative is to find the value provided to them they don't really mind how are you go to the supermarket you got to you know area you don't know how those boots got there you don't know how the saddles got there it's only important that it's right there in front of you ready for sale in area 1000 hours six trucks and you know transcontinental no one really minus that

Jen Tankel - Pegasus Podcast 34:05

I think less job guys I want it there and I want it in my size or if not I'm not coming back I'm going online can't believe

Sam Banes - Pegasus Podcast 34:11

you don't have any my size this is bullshit

Jen Tankel - Pegasus Podcast 34:18

I love what you said which was you had that outside perspective and so you came in with this childlike curiosity and so then you can really understand what is needed whereas when you are in it when you're so in it and doesn't matter if it riding or whatever it is. It's hard to really think outside of the box you know you're still what you actually have a really good idea or not.

Sam Banes - Pegasus Podcast 34:44

Oh yeah, no, no step outside the light. Do you know the it's it's it's a it's a famous analogy, but the it's basically what it comes down to is is that there's a guy who loses his keys in the dark and he's in a parking lot. And you lose his keys in the dark and there is one. There is one overhead light in the entire carpark. So he's looking for his keys underneath that light, and someone walks out to him and goes, What are you doing? And he's like, Oh, I lost my cabling. Very easy. Oh, did you lose him years ago, I don't know where I lost him. But he's only looking with a light is because that's the light he can see. So the idea now, the point being that people, the reason outsiders are so powerful when it comes into a new industry and are able to see things that other people can't see is because the people who are in the industry are looking to or used to looking where the light is. And so they're looking for solutions within that area, where people who come from outside of the industry, they come in, they go, hey, there's a whole car park here, why are we ignoring the rest of the car park as possible solutions to this problem?

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 35:50

Yes, exactly. Entrepreneurs should question the options provided just because there's a solution does not mean that solution is the solution. Yeah, these options should be questioned and always re evaluated to see is it going to accommodate the changing demand for customers online, there's Um, there's actually a really interesting read. It was from the Nobel laureate, the 2001, on the nobel laureate by George Akerlof and his two other economists. And he was talking about the breakdown of information, markets and information asymmetry. And the idea being and by the way, the biggest impact guys probably obviously heard of Expedia, Zillow, glass door. This was all started by Rich, Barton, same guy, and there was a podcast on on how I built this love, love that podcast. So they're discussing this, this peer review paper, this just Nobel Prize, I'm like, Okay, well, let's consider, let's look into it, I think this will be very helpful for entrepreneur considering that one is made a whole, three publicly traded companies on it. And the idea is, pretty much what you're saying is, there's an information gap in that, in that analogy, where it's, you're in the dark, and you're only looking to the information you have, that's what's underneath the light. So what Akerlof was suggesting is saying, the more information that you give towards a buyer, that they will go towards the light, that is the clarity that you're providing to them. Because sellers inherently have the most amount of light, because they know the product as much as possible. And it's actually funny in the paper, they mentioned exactly used cars, as an example to convey this. So yes, I agree entrepreneurs need to, when they're in the dark, they need to say maybe I'll bring my own flashlight. And we'll call that my imagination and see where we could light up and find those keys easier and set up. Yeah.

Sam Banes - Pegasus Podcast 37:51

Yeah. You said earlier, you said earlier that when when you first started out that people were seeing you as a threat. When you say that, so if I if I if I interpret that in the context of the horse industry, do you mean that in the sense of you spoke to some trainers, trainers who worked at boarding barns, and we're used to being the optimist of the boarding barn, right, their job is to essentially buying horses speak to the board, the board is at the boarding barn and essentially sell the horses on to the boarders? Are they the ones who were seeing you as a threat?

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 38:29

No, probably, the correction would be more so that they're hyper defensive. That was more of the the issue that I found is that the equine world from a sales perspective, are very hyper defensive. So they didn't see me as a threat at all quite the opposite. Once I, once any person says, Yeah, I'm not affiliated or partial to a brand, or to a barn. That's what they're concerned with, it seems that the airline industry itself is suffering from siloed information and hyper competitive nature just because of how local it can be. So that was more what I have found that when reaching out towards all these, you know, potential clients and barns that they're hyper, hyper defensive, but they are still looking for a solution. So it's, it's a bit tricky for them when they have to trust others. But at the same time, they you need that trust inherently to adopt the new solution. So that's why it's been great for from a technical standpoint, because I am completely transparent with what Artemis does who we are. I mean, you can look on some of the biggest listing sites you won't know who they're owned by there is there's rarely an about page and a number that says, Hi, this is such and such call me very rare. So but when talking with these with these clients, they're actually excited to work with Artemis, because they're like, Oh, fantastic. I know who you are. And I know that you are not a threat or a you know, a competitor by any means you're completely neutral. So that's more of the industry seems to be hybrid. offensive, right? Yeah,

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