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Have a horsey idea? Want to save time & money? Ask 100 people first! Here's why...

Updated: Sep 28, 2021

With the amazing host of The Leadline Podcast, Mandee Flanders, we got into the nitty-gritty details.

Mandee 0:07

This is the horse radio network. Today's episode is brought to you by Hillcrest bookkeeping solutions. Are you tired of feeling lost when tax season rolls around? Do you feel anxiety every time you dig out that shoebox of receipts? If you've been searching for a better way to manage your finances and keep your books balanced Hillcrest bookkeeping solutions can help with a special focus on equine businesses. Hillcrest bookkeeping provides monthly and quarterly options on most of their services. So you never need to worry about racking up an expensive hourly bill. spend less time worrying about your books and more time doing what you love. Book your free consultation at Hillcrest That's h i ll CR St. And find out how you can run your business more efficiently with a bookkeeper today. Have you ever had an idea for your business that you believed would be a complete home run? You believed in it so strongly, in fact that you decided to just go for it. And you poured everything you had into that one idea, your time your money and not to mention your energy? You've probably heard the saying if you build it, they will come right. But what if you build something so awesome, and it's just crickets. In today's episode, we're joined by Nick Borden, who shares with us if you build it, they don't always come. In fact, Nick launched three other online programs prior to landing on his final business, which is now known as Artemis horse match. He's here to share why it was so important for him to listen to his target audience, right down to interviewing literally 100 people to find out what it was that they truly wanted. He dropped some great truth nuggets throughout our chat. So if you've been struggling to land on that winning offer or service for your business, stick around and listen to what Nick has to say. Welcome to the lead line podcast, the show where we believe that running your own horse business should feel less like a chore. It's more like the life you've always dreamed of. Join us as we share valuable advice on how to become more focused, more organized and more profitable in your horse business. And now here's your host, Mandy Flanders. Hey, Nick, and thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. How are you doing?

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 2:36

I'm doing pretty great, Mandee. How are you? Happy to be here.

Mandee 2:39

I'm good. I'm good. Thank you. So I know you are eager to get started with this interview today, you've had your couple cups of coffee. So you're gearing up and ready to go.

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 2:51

I am I'm super excited.

Mandee 2:53

Awesome. You have a business that serves equestrians. But you don't necessarily consider yourself an equestrian. So you kind of got an interesting story from that perspective. I'd love to start out just by learning a bit more about how you got into starting Artemis and how you came to create this platform. Yeah,

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 3:11

it was actually a pretty interesting way I got into it. So my my background is in business, and I'm very attuned with software design, it was actually through other friends of mine that are in the hunter jumper world as well as Polo. And they approached me with a problem they said, Nick, it is really difficult in the equestrian space to find information. It is fragmented, it is siloed. It's buried and tons of Facebook pages. Can you help? And so from that, I went into this mini hackathon, for lack of a better term. And I went in and I said, Okay, I think we can make a good place for Artemis to serve that mean. And over the past. You know, since that conversation, it's turned into what it is today, an email, horse matchmaking service. That's how I got into it. And by not being an equestrian, it's actually served more of an advantage than you might expect. From an entrepreneurial standpoint, it gave me a clear understanding, and a beginner's eyes into looking at these problems. As well as it gave me a competitive advantage because whenever I call a sale barn, or otherwise, I introduce myself and just like how any other person will have a conversation, they'll say, you know, who are you? What's your, what's your service, I'm interested to learn. They also greeted me with a question saying, well, who do you know? That that question I found is more of the community seems to be very hyper defensive just because of how competitive it was. And it was very calming and very pleasing to my clients to say, I'm actually not an equestrian I'm, I'm not a competitor, I'm not in your space. I'm actually think of me as air traffic control. I help people find your horses. I help everybody just meet one another. I am a neutral third party. So that's been a really great way to get into the space and it's been a way faster growth strategy than I've realized that That's kind of how it started now it's snowballed from there.

Mandee 5:02

I was doing a little bit of checking around to see what kind of platforms are out there nowadays for listing a horse for sale. And obviously, we see a lot going on in Facebook groups. And we see people trying to get around the Facebook bots, because Facebook now prohibits animals being posted for sale. Yeah, so you have to find creative ways to list your horses for sale. And obviously, a lot of people have figured out how to do that without triggering the Facebook bots. But it's still a challenge. And technically, it's not allowed. And so it can, it can get interesting. And sometimes you just can't even get your horse for sale posted. So talk to me a little bit more about how your service compares to some of the other classified sites that are out there. Facebook aside, there's other platforms like equine calm or dream horse dream horse has been around forever. I remember using that when I was like, I feel like I was like 13 years old shopping for horses. It's been around a long time. So how does your service compared to some of the other platforms that are available?

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 6:04

Yeah, that's a really great question. And I was posed that question, I posed it to myself and by other customers, as well had said, you know, what makes us different from the dime a dozen. And actually, what's radically different about horse match is that it is not a classifieds page. So historically, we've seen that most listings have either been written, you know, and at some billboard like structure, and then not once we've digitized it, once the internet came around, it just became a glorified newspaper, for lack of a better word, and classified sites heavily rely on the traffic to their site, it's a little bit tricky, because your traffic is really much incentivize to look at new content that's coming up frequently. But at the end of the day, it is still a newspaper responsibility is still on the sellers to go and list on these sites posted on each one. And then they have to fight off all the notifications from all these different sites, they've put up their phone numbers and emails, they don't know who's coming from where it's not proactive. At the same time, the existing model makes buyers do all of the work, a lot of the due diligence is on the buyer side. And I'm sure you've seen it when you're on dream horse, or like you mentioned at coin calm, you basically have to do every single search and maybe you have like a saved search function. But at the end of the day, writers have, not a lot of time, they want to be in front of their clients not behind a computer. And that's what's going on currently. And it has been what makes artemus different is that we radically changed by I would say at least a factor of 10. Saving Time for buyers to find horses, there isn't anything that's geared towards the buyers, in the search process. Everything like these classified services are geared towards the sellers, with a promise of saying, you know, here's all the exposure. So what Artemis does, it says, Hey, if you're a buyer, you could pay a small fee, and tell us exactly what horse you're looking for. Just tell us once, it'll take you literally five minutes to fill out the form, maybe less, and will do all the searching for you. So then that way, now, a buyer could be sitting at home or at the barn, and they just receive emails periodically of horses that match their description, it does the work for them, they no longer have to go through the Facebook pages or the classified pages, we do it for you. And in that regard, that's been a huge value add for the equestrian world. They're saying I get my time back. That's that's a huge change in the due diligence process for buyers and sellers as a whole. Additionally, we went a step further in the creation of Artemis that we wanted to make sure that the matches made sense. Because how many times have you seen it when you go on a Facebook page or you go on coin comm or dream horse or any other classified and you contact them? You're super excited. And they say, Oh, it was sold? Well, it's like, okay, that's a bit frustrating went through the whole process, or you contact them, they answer you're going through the due diligence process. And you find a piece of information that hadn't been upfront and mentioned right in the beginning, that deal breaker could have been, you know, could have set you free and look at the next prospect. So what we did at Artemis is say, Okay, let's get all this information from the seller, in order to make sure that the buyer can get matched to it. But we won't disclose all the information. So this is what I mean. An example would be a seller goes onto our platform, and lists for free. Already different from any other platform where you have to pay with a promise we say pay for performance on Artemis and list for free lets as many horses as you want, we don't mind then what would happen is that their horse goes into our network. We then run our matching algorithm to all the existing buyers that saying this is my request. These are the horses I'm looking for, or my barn or my clients or myself. The buyer receives an email and it says oh my gosh, here's the horse. Here's the age breed color discipline, but not the sales price. And the reason why is because it allows the sellers to have that negotiate Power on their end also allows the buyer to say, I know that this horse is within my budget. Because Artem is only gives me horses within my budget. Now I don't know specifically what that number is. And that's okay, that allows for a negotiation to occur. And that helps both ways for the seller to get in contact with qualified buyers fast and easy, without disclosing the price. And it also helps the buyers to say I'm matched with sellers, I'm saving time, this is much quicker. And these are all the horses that meet my needs, way easier than to have to do all the manual work yourself. So that's why it makes artemus much stronger. It's a proactive software, it's a proactive service, we do the work for you. And I like to, you know, give that customer service experience towards, you know, a lot of these writers saying no problem, tell us tell me what you need to be done.

Mandee 10:52

Walk me through a little bit about what the user experience is like from the buyers perspective, once they get that email and you said, you know, they can then negotiate with the seller, what happens when they open the email, and they're like, Okay, I've got a potential horse that matches what I'm looking for. And it's within my budget, walk me through the next steps at that point.

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 11:12

Yeah, so what happens is, you get the email and the excitement kicks in that, okay, this horse matches my description, this is exactly what I'm looking for. And it's packaged in a nice email specifically for these moments to say, Alright, I'm going to send this to my vet, I'm going to send it to the owner to the client, and start that negotiation process fast. So already, the medium is much better than any other site. And eventually, Artemis is going to be growing into including records. In that email, the buyer has all the information in that email. So there shouldn't be a need for them to go anywhere, only a need for them to share it with anybody else that they'd like to help in that purchase of that course. So that's the user experience. And we try to make it as easy as possible. And we arrive to that conclusion using email as a main mode, after talking with our clients talking with photographers saying, What's the easiest way for you? Do you prefer a text? Do you prefer an email? Do you like going on a platform? Or if you had a magic wand? Really, what would you prefer? That's what we did. We listened to the customers, and they guided us to this answer. And so and we've seen the engagement go up. And that's been great. So that's the user experience, that they've crafted it themselves. We've merely just listened and followed and built towards what they wanted. Yeah. And

Mandee 12:30

it sounds very simple for the end user, which is obviously what any business owner is looking for. It's keep things simple, because frustrating. People aren't going to use it. Mm hmm. So artemus horse matches essentially, like a dating service for horses. You just don't have to swipe right feature. Which Honestly, I think would be really cool. I would love to I mean, that would get probably get me in trouble. I would probably have far more than one horse if there was an app that made it that easy. Yeah, I

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 13:01

I mean, that's really funny. You mentioned it, but I was so I built the software myself. And I was looking at him like, you know, what if we were to make it exactly like that, like a Tinder matchmaking program? And I thought, okay, let's see. Well, certainly everybody knows about Tinder. So it'd be really easy from a messaging standpoint, to say, okay, you know, all your riders out there, this is a Tinder for for horses. That being said, it was challenging, because, like, unlike a normal, you know, Tinder other dating profile that we use, we typically have a type, like people typically have at least you know, they're only looking for one person. Whereas for horses, you could have several different types and several different horses you're looking for. And unfortunately, by nature of Tinder, you can't have you know, three different personalities, right. Like, it would be, that would be its own dilemma and of itself for dinner, they're gonna have to deal with that if that ever came to be. But

Mandee 13:56

for most people, they probably have a lot of matches. So if you're on Tinder, I'm talking to our listeners. But if you're on Tinder, and you're listening to this, and you're not matching with anybody, you probably need to update your settings to get more matches.

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 14:11

So, and Tinder had a lot of quirks when I was trying to analyze their their matching model, and I thought, okay, you know, it works in theory, but I think the comparison is only as good as as that just online saying, Hey, here's a matchmaking service. You know, Artemis is a Tinder for horses. It's a little bit more complex on the back end, just because our criteria, you know, as far as buyers can shift, you know, depending on the season, but yeah, it is just as fun and just as exciting where you could just put in a request. I mean, we've had matches as fast as five hours, where on a rolling basis, somebody sent, you know, a horse request saying, Hey, this is my budget. I'm looking for a horse in California, or I'm looking for one in Wellington. Let's see, and they, you know, they put in a request and they get a match and they're like, this was actually extremely exciting. It took me all of five minutes. I saved about a week. weeks worth of work and hunting and pecking. And you're telling me that this could be delivered, I don't have to do anything, I could be riding a horse and I get an email. Okay, I'll do that again. It's pretty fun. It's good to get a match.

Mandee 15:13

That's awesome. I want to get kind of into the nitty gritty details of you being a startup and creating Artemis horse match, because I know that in the beginning, it took you a few other concepts to land on this final concept of being Artemis horse match. So I want to get into that a little bit. Tell me a bit about how you figured out this whole process and finally landed on your final product?

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 15:38

Yeah, wow. That's a that's a great question. So let's, I'm going to decouple that and separated I guess, for the for ease of the listeners, the separate between what is a market problem? And what is customer behavior? And what is an entrepreneur skill set. So the market problem was pretty easy to find. I mean, almost every Facebook page, every person I've spoken to, has iterated the same concerns and pain points saying the equity industry is antiquated, I can't find anything. This is a painful process. So everyone knows that that's loud and clear. But what was a difficult thing to wrangle with was the customer behavior. That is what is the crux of the problem is that if you build simply to a problem and provide that solution, that doesn't mean that the customers will change the behavior. So it's kind of like the same dilemma where everybody in New Year's says, I'm gonna go to the gym, I'm super excited. This is it, this is my year, and then you walk in the gym in May. And nobody's there are very, very few that, you know, as we're on January 1, so we know that customer behavior is a problem. And we ourselves fall victim to that. So that went into and that was something I struggled with, in the early days of Artemis, I built the platform, you know, a very robust platform probably took me about, I mean, between learning the software, building it, talking to clients doing it all, in the early days, probably took me well over, you know, 600 hours, maybe even more with other peripheral items. And that was really, really difficult to do, especially when you listen to customers. And they say, you know, this is awesome. I love it. Love the idea. But I mean, Mandy, if you look at the analytics, if that's not what they're saying, though, right, they're voting with their clicks and the clicks weren't talking. So that was difficult, you know, in the struggle in the in the beginning to say, Okay, first takeaway, build it and they will come not true. That's definitely not true.

Mandee 17:51

on that as well. Yeah, I think that's a very valid statement.

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 17:55

It was heartbreaking. And the reality of that. So it that is a really good, you know, takeaway, at least for an entrepreneur. The second point I found that said, okay, round two, we're going to pivot we're going to go and make this more of a an application iOS application. And why is that? Okay, well, a customer behavior. Everyone knows the download an app. Is this what it could be? So I built it. We did the whole process spoke to 100 new people, I said, Is this an easier medium to accept this information? They said, Sure, is once again, the behavior didn't reflect it. It wasn't. It was closer, it did improve, but it was not close enough. It wasn't enough to make it as a viable business opportunity. So kept refining the problem. And what I found that the best approach by far is this, you have the problem, like I mentioned that you have the market problem that exists, write that down, and talk to 100 people, and then say, Okay, here's my solution on pen and paper, and then just talk with them and say, Hey, and this is awesome, actually, by the from the question community, they were so helpful, and opening up their their life story to me, and just being transparent with their problems. And saying, Yeah, you know, Nick, these are, these are the pain points that I'm experiencing. If you could find a way that would be great. That was, for me, that was really humbling that they would share that information. And, you know, be open to saying, Yeah, if you could find an improvement, I need some room to grow. Could you help? So in that, you know, my journey to 100. I spoke with them wrote down the pain points. And then by 101, you'll look at it and say, Okay, this is the problem. And now after 100 people hear this solution, and you're able to distill down what that solution would look like, this is what bulk of the customer says that should be a reasonable sample size they could get from any, you know, from any idea that you come up with. Now, this is the third point I mentioned. What is you as an entrepreneur? What is your skill set? Is this something you want to pursue? Because the solution that you have thought of in the beginning, when you spoke to person number one, it is going to be radically different than the solution you are currently holding in your hand for person 101. So then you ask yourself, Is this a solution I want to pursue, because this is the solution that people are going to buy. That is where it hits home for the entrepreneur. So that was the biggest takeaway. And during that process, and iterating, it led me to make artemus into what it is a proactive email matchmaking service, I spoke to the 100 people, I did it again, we looked at the analytics, my team was looking at it saying, Okay, these are the these are the data points, we have found, email seems to be the way to go. This is a good way to showcase new content, get them to click, it's easier to measure, you know, this is all from business from, you know, that's all from the business standpoint. But from a writer standpoint, we saw that we lead them to water, and they like to drink email content, that is the best way. And we work really hard to make it as simplified as condensed, and as easy for our clients to make it. We'd like to have a high degree of customer service. And so having that data given to them, on a very quick way was one of their biggest takeaway saying, you know, let's solve a problem. Let's have technology scale, that solution. And because we've saved time, using technology to scale that solution, we're going to reinvest that save time into customer service. And that's why it's been, you know, taking off and doing really well with this new model. And that's been a big takeaway. Definitely a journey for sure, Mandy, but it's heartbreaking. Like you said it when you make something. Unfortunately, people just don't, you know, they don't need to know. And they don't really care how long it took you. Right, if you're at the tack shop, you see the the saddles, you see all the area products, do they know how many planes, it came through? How many ports and travel, how many hands have touched it know that? And it's it's and they're right, they shouldn't need to know, all they need to know is? Is this my size? And is this what I need? Absolutely. It's just heartbreaking when you're no one making it, you know,

Mandee 22:19

that's so true for someone who's listening to this. And it's like, Nick didn't talk to 100 people, where do you find 100? People? What do you say to someone who thinks that that's just kind of an outrageous number to throw out? And did you actually talk to 100? Did you track them?

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 22:35

I actually did talk to 100. People? It's It's awesome. Yeah, it's it's actually not that hard. I had the same question to myself. And I've heard of this. And this idea actually came when I was when I was at Babson College, you know, back in the day, I was like, okay, the professor mentioned this, and I said, 100 people, I don't do I know, 100 people? That's, that's a good question. And but any, anyone can do it. It's not that difficult. So what I did it just just as, you know, complete transparency. What I do in the initial days of Artemis is I went online, and I said, Okay, who do I think my potential customer could be? You know, who's around my area, and I'm in Florida. So there's a lot of questions near me. So I just called just pick up the phone and call, send an email, send a text, and just chat, I've even walked into Barnes. And I'll just call them in advance. And I said, Hey, I'd love to meet, this is what I'm doing. I built a prototype, would you like to engage with it, I'll literally walk to you, you don't think would go anywhere, just tell me when you're free. I have. And that's the footwork that every entrepreneur should do for themselves. Because that's ultimately, who you're selling to, you're trying to convince yourself that this is a good idea. Because you have the data to suggest it. I mean, otherwise, if you don't, then you're kind of going blind. At that point, then you're gonna fall into, I'm just going to build it, and then they will come. Because this is what I think customers want. So it was definitely a really hard approach. Starting out, you know, just from a mental standpoint, but it's really not that difficult. It probably took, you know, a month, month and a half to schedule calls. Make sure you know, send emails and he knows, you know, by far an easier way to communicate. But yeah, it was, you know, something I continually do just want to keep in touch with a lot of photographers, keep in touch with trainers and say, how'd you like it? What's going on? Just lending an ear does way more for an entrepreneur and giving them direction than anything else. So I mean, if you're gonna put your money on, on the startup idea, and you're gonna invest your time, wouldn't you want to talk to customers? Wouldn't you want to talk to those people who would be that you're asking them for $1? Because I mean, if you don't ask those questions, they're going to ask them for you. So yeah, that's, that's that's what I came up with it and you know, going on Facebook is a really great way as well, that's Facebook and even run a Facebook Add that's like a, that's like a bit of a secret actually, in the startup world, if you have an idea, and you just don't know whether or not you should build it or not, just make a Facebook ad, just make a Facebook and this wasn't in regards to artemus. This is just just general knowledge, make a Facebook ad and say, Hey, this is an idea that I have you no new product, click here to make a reservation, if you would like to be notified when it's in stock. That is a really great way Mandy that I found that you could literally pitch an idea, pitch a product, and just see did 200 people sign up? Did 300 people sign up maybe 3000 from your Facebook ad. And then you could say, well, you know, give or take maybe 3% are going to actually buy it. That's pretty good is this, there seems to be interest. So that's a really good way to vet and qualify. You know, your idea, especially with customers, and just to listen forms and surveys are good. So those are some ideas. And that's how I reached out to 100 people.

Mandee 26:00

Those are some great tips, Nick. So I've got another question for you. I like asking the hard questions. And with a platform like yours, obviously, the only way to really make something like that work is to attract the people. And it sounds like you've been able to successfully do that. But I'm curious how you are continually growing your audience, especially with an online platform. Because one thing that I hear from online entrepreneurs specifically is that they build these online platforms. And then nobody uses them. What do you suggest for someone who's building something new online, and no one's coming to them? How do you continue to market that and attract users to your service? Because it's not going to work? Obviously, right? unless people are actually utilizing it.

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 26:42

Yeah, that is a good, hard hitting reality question, what I found only within the equestrian space, you know, for me, obviously changes between each, each market. But in my case, I found that building a static platform, like a place to go and interact with, and that has a lot of layers, like Facebook didn't seem to be the way and listening to customers has been, you know, one of the one of the ways of help figure out how to market because if you give them an easy solution, they will tell people, and that's part of the reason why we went into email is because on the bottom of every email, it shows, you know, this is who we are, this is artemus horse match, here's a video, if you want to add your horse for free click here, like, we make those items in those Click Funnels, so to speak, in the body of the email, that makes it a lot easier to have our content reach out to new people. And it's also even with the email marketing standpoint, the horse match itself is a lead magnet, that's one of the biggest issues for companies, when they're trying to reach out to their audience, you know, the 1000 plus people on their campaign, you know, whether they use MailChimp, or what have you, that they need to make sure that there's a header or content that's going to be that lead magnet to have them click and engage with the content. In my case, and at least in the questions case, they're looking for a horse that's specific to their needs. So it's really unique that when they see an email for them, it is literally the horse for them and then alone. So they're going to be opening up the email, and they're going to be interacting and sharing that content much more than any other business. Another case that I found that's actually unique to any equestrian entrepreneur, is that I've noticed, there's very few markets that exist, where you could look two years out and say, with an absolute certainty that your clients, you know that there's going to be equestrian clients in Wellington in 2022, or 2025. That is rare. That is extremely rare. How could anybody know where your customer is going to be in the future? I mean, imagine if your Airbnb and you're like, Oh, I know that this specific family is going to be, you know, purchasing a ticket to be, you know, traveling to Jackson Hole. That would be huge for the hospitality industry if that existed, but it already does for the equine industry. So from a marketing standpoint, and how to make sure people engage with our email newsletters and engaging with our matches. It's great, we could have specifically targeted ads on a per zip code basis at any time. So now your your advertising, your advertising dollars are maximized on a per zip code basis. And that's how we make sure that it's growing, because your advertising only to where your know your customer is going to be at that specific time. So from the Facebook side, it helps us grow from the medium that we deliver our content through emails has been a fantastic way to grow. podcasts actually have been fantastic. I'm a huge fan of podcasts, you know, just chatting and interacting with the audience just generally is good and always keeping a line out there. Like I like to keep my phone number and even emails. I like to read all of them and interact directly with the customers and say what Is it that you need is this something that I can help with, if not a team member will will assist you. That's been really helpful. And everyone, you know, everyone likes to talk and open up about themselves. So just chatting with them and being open and not behind a monitor. People appreciate that. And you know, putting in the effort, people see that you're genuinely trying to make the solution to make this horse community grow. That's what I found, honestly.

Mandee 30:23

Well, Nick, it sounds like this entire project has been very well thought out, you have pivoted, where you've needed to pivot, and you continue to focus on serving the customer first, which is so important, given everything that you have gone through starting Artemis horse match the pivots that you have made the things that you have learned, do you have any tips or words of encouragement you would offer to someone who's struggling to land on the right business concept right now? Yeah,

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 30:51

so I would say, for those who are already building an idea, or even considering it, what I would do is absolutely qualify every decision you make. And usually when people come up with an idea, it's because they've either experienced this problem themselves and said, Hmm, maybe this is I have a solution. Or if they've listened, usually one of those two. So words of encouragement, I would say, keep searching, keep looking online, most of the information is free, don't be worried or concerned saying, Oh, you know, I don't have all the answers today. That's okay. That's okay. If you had all the answers today, then you wouldn't be interested in solving this problem. And more, so the problem would have already been solved. Had everyone had those answers. So I wouldn't be stuck on analysis paralysis, right, just get as good as you can get be as closest to the solution, and then always have a refined, and if anybody in any entrepreneur, you know, sees that, you know, doesn't believe that? Well look at any major company. And notice that they have a help page. And notice they have an FAQ. Because, inherently by having those options set, even in the biggest of companies, it shows that not even the biggest companies can have all the answers. So then why should a small entrepreneur, you know, expect themselves to have that? So it's okay to not have all the answers. I would say it's okay to talk to people and approach them. Everyone's really nice. Usually, I found that people when they're, you know, entrepreneurs are exploring and talking to other customers that they believe that they're going to be you know, someone's gonna be rude or not engaged. That's okay. You would rather have a No, but I, but with a good idea, I found that it's, you're going to get more yeses. And you want to be really thankful with those nose. Because those nose, it's going to save you a lot of time. And, gosh, I guess when it comes to a any technical idea, I'll say absolutely continue with it. Talk with other business owners and say, Hey, what are the pitfalls? What are some things I should be concerned about? When I'm forecasting my budget? And trying to invest into making this, you know, as an application or as a platform or anything really? What should I do? What should I avoid? Can you shed light in a corner? What am I missing? asking more questions is totally okay. And just don't hold yourself to such a high standard that paralyzes you. I'll just say just have fun with it and explore that. When you you could come up with something really fun, and really enjoyable. Just by searching consistently the problem and listening to your customers, that you'll be able to refine it and offer a really good valuable service, and hopefully in an industry that you like.

Mandee 33:34

So don't be afraid of the nose and ask a lot of questions. Guys, yeah, that's great. Nick will tell people where they can find out more about Artemis horse match online,

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 33:45

George so you could find a artemus horse match on Instagram, Artemis horse match, we have our Facebook page with the same name. And you could add your horse or find a horse at Artemis Match calm.

Mandee 33:57

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story here today, Nick. It's been great having you and it sounds like you have a great opportunity for people who are either buying or selling horses. So be sure to check it out. Guys.

Nick - Artemis Horse Match 34:08

It was great being here.

Mandee 34:10

If you've been enjoying these episodes at the lead line podcast, can I ask you to do two quick things for me? Subscribe to the show. So you always know when we have a new episode release. And be sure to leave us a review so other people know that this is the go to podcast for equine entrepreneurs. Reviews help us continue to climb in the rankings and reach more people and it would really help me out. Thanks again for tuning in. And remember, let's make more money. have more time and have fun with our forces. I Mandy and I'll see you next time.

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